Wouldn’t the NC recognize an ARES tech checking in as 3rd party via general or higher license station? Just a thought…
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I always did/do.
Jeff KE5FGA
Wouldn’t the NC recognize an ARES tech checking in as 3rd party via general or higher license station? Just a thought…
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I can’t tell if George is serious or just joking or maybe he’s a lawyer? Your twisting a fundamental concept into a gross distortion George. The HF net purpose is for stations with HF privilege to operate their HF equipment under conditions subject to HF frequencies both good and bad unlike VHF conditions generally and accomplish point to point communications under those conditions successfully. Licensed techs can be a guest at a higher licensed station and can check in but only by using the higher licensed stations call sign, not their Tech callsigns. The relay part is intended for HF stations relaying other HF stations unable to contact net control on HF frequencies. If techs want to be on the HF net report they can always upgrade their license.
Disagreement, argument or additional comments welcome. I’m not perfect but I am pretty close to it.
(Joke intended)
73, John K2WJ
My 2 cents, soon to be a nickel…
As long as the Tech follows the rules, all should be good… They could be at their QTH using their HF/VHF/UHF rig with a control operator… Or maybe at an EOC or some other facility that has HF gear installed…
Cut-n-pasted from the web:
When a Technician operates from someone else’s HF station, they identify by saying the station’s call sign, then a word like “slash” or “stroke”, followed by their own Technician call sign, such as “W1ABC/K2XYZ” (Phone) or “W1ABC/K2XYZ” (CW), to show they’re operating under the station’s privileges but are the control operator, ensuring compliance with FCC rules when the control operator’s license class exceeds the station’s (or to show who’s at the mic).
This could also be done by telephone… Think back to the days of HF Phone Patches…
They could even cross-band from one of their privileged bands to the HF Net…
I wouldn’t say do this every week or ever net, but encourage them to check in… Getting the Techs to check in this way could be the bait to get them to upgrade… We should encourage them to upgrade…
73 Dallas N4DDM
Not so sure about cross banding to a frequency they are not allowed to transmit their signal from…
But they can check in digital via Winlink VARA FM to get on the roster.
A relay, from any legal station, is a valuable resource in times of actual emergencies. As for HF nets using them from VHF, it could tend to create longer nets, especially with the repeater linking we have these days.
Either way, anytime a tech’s call goes on the roster of a HF net out of their privileges, it does need to be designated as how it got there.
Kevin
One small issue with what you are saying about the Technician being the ‘Control Operator’ on another user’s station. Per FCC Rule 97, when a radio operator is a ‘Control Operator’ on another user’s equipment/station, the equipment is LIMITED TO THE FREQUENCIES/BANDS that the Control Operator is licensed to operate. This essentially prevents a Technician from legally operating as ‘Control Operator’ on the frequency that the ARES group is using for the Net. Now, if the Technician is operating UNDER the observation/control of the higher licensed ‘Control Operator’ that is different. Maybe that is what you meant. Perhaps we’re merely piddlin’ about terms, but those are the things which get an amateur radio operator in trouble.
73 de KA7SSR
Jim Vineyard
OK, I’ll add my 2 cents for what it’s worth…
What is the purpose of the net? I see three, to practice proper procedures, to test equipment and to ensure that messages can get from end to end in a disaster.
That is what HF operators do on the Texas ARES net. I have never understood the purpose of one operator reading off a list of call signs for people who were present at a meeting. That accomplishes none of the objectives but that decision is above my pay grade. Anyway…
VHF operators now have a role in the net via digital messaging but is that it? If we’re in the middle of a disaster and I, as a technician, am sitting at home with my dual band transceiver and a makeshift antenna made from a coat hanger I have thrown up cannot hit a repeater or a gateway, I’m going to look for another way to get welfare and emergency messages out. That is likely going to be via a General or higher operator who is monitoring the VHF and UHF emergency frequencies and can get my messages in and out of the disaster area. So I see a role for technicians via UHF/VHF contact relays. Maybe those could happen before the formal net opens and the HF operator could read the list during his check-in. Or maybe I’m thinking outside of the confines of the defined box.
I know of no equipment that will cross-band from VHF/UHF to HF. I might be wrong but it certainly isn’t common and it sounds illegal.
One other thought on my previous comment, relaying VHF/UHF checkins from technicians via HF to the net would help build a catalog of available local resources for technicians to use during disasters.
We should get more Technicians involved in Vara FM
Technician license allows full privileges on all amateur VHF/UHF bands, including digital modes.
So a Technician can fully use Winlink on:
2 meters (144–148 MHz)
70 cm (420–450 MHz)
Other VHF/UHF bands
This is the easiest and most common way Technicians use Winlink — using packet (VARA FM, Packet 1200/9600, etc.) into a local RMS gateway.
I vote for this. HF is not the only way to get Winlink messages delivered…in fact, …
Tom Talley
Progress every day*…even if just a little…*
is a good thing…!
Kevin,
This is too easy… Let me draw you a mental picture…
Put your HF microphone in your Left Hand… Put your VHF/UHF microphone in your Right Hand…
Key both radios and tell the world your call and what you are doing…
Hold your HF/Left Hand microphone next to your VHF/UHF speaker and have your Technician buddy talk to your HF buddies while you key the HF rig…
When he stops talking or says Over, you unkey…
Hold your VHF/UHF Right Hand microphone next to your HF speaker and have your HF buddies talk to your VHF/UHF buddy while you key the VHF/UHF rig…
When they stop talking or say Over, you unkey…
Repeat and remind folks to ID…
If you can find an old Heathkit Phone Patch unit you could rewire it to do the job so you would only have to flip a toggle switch… The phone patch would expect DC and audio so a litlle design work would be in the mix…
73 Dallas N4DDM
Wasn’t “Kevin” you should be replying too…but…
The tech would be broadcasting voice on frequencies they are not allowed to broadcast voice on.
It is not to say it could not be done, but it should not be done.
Heck I can set it up with speakers and vox…not really the point.
I did advocate digital check in via FM and it be noted how a tech’s call ends up on a HF Net outside of the tech privileges.
I know all techs are encouraged to upgrade…always.
Have a good one…
Kevin
I don’t think you qualify as equipment. lol
73,
Paul
k5prs
This have been an interesting blog to read and follow.
I know in Waller county we started on VHF and conducted a normal net. The we moved
The net in the 10 meter band where a tech could operate and did a second net. But that
Still required the tech to own and operated his HF equipment. Most of them with that
10 meter experienced got their general location cense so they could explore all of the fun on HF.
I think upgrading your license is very important so you can get up on HF frequencies.
We all learned during Hurricane Rita we lost almost of our VHF repeaters and our hand held radios became boat anchors.
At this time the only organization that I know that will allow Tech operators on HF military frequencies is MARS. But you still have to own your personal equipment.
Ken Miller/W5KAM
I agree that HTs will become boat anchors in a disaster that takes down all of our repeaters unless those HTs can reach HF operators on calling frequencies. Experience teaches that a.) not all technicians will get Advanced or higher tickets and that b.) most Advanced and higher ticket holders have and operate VHF/UHF rigs. I see the link between HT wielding Techs and HF operators as essential in any major disaster situation. Of course where repeaters and gateways remain operational, Techs would continue to use them. The only other option that I’m aware of is peer-to-peer messaging but that takes a lot of coordination and planning and practice and several/many hops to get out of the disaster zone. Clearly a Tech to HF operator connection is necessary.
There are many jobs to do. Hand helds are ideal for supporting small groups working in limited areas. Sar, staging, transport, airoos coord…adding short repeaters to deployable trailers is important. Both GMRS and ham. Adding area WiFi is important as well.
The idea that we should test only one part of our resources regularly is perhaps a little narrow minded. We should be finding asynchronous ways to keep our networks well oiled routinely.
Tom
Tom Talley
Progress every day*…even if just a little…*
is a good thing…!
That VHF to HF connection exists in the VARAC platform using the chat mode. The technology already exists. From KI5EYI