Skywarn

STXARES
1

Hello.
I am Lloyd Coker living in Cypress, Texas.
My HAM call sign is KI5OYC.

I have been interested in Skywarn since before becoming a HAM.
Once a ham, I relatively quickly became part of the local and state ARES groups and nets and, for a while (work barring recent activity), an active Amateur Radio NTS traffic participant.

As mentioned above, work has limited my NTS involvement and, lately, a bit of my ARES involvement, but I do still most regularly check in on the nets via Digital and Voice to maintain my equipment readiness and stay in the game. :+1::smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

I have always been interested in Skywarn.
I grew up in North Central Texas and East Texas, which both have numerous tornados and large weather events each year.
We had monthly drills at our schools in elementary through High School for tornados, extreme weather, and, of course, at my age… Nuclear events.

I have been recently actively drilling into the NWS and NOAA systems web sites and such, to find a Skywarn certification class. I found that they do have an online version with two classes for certification. (Role of Scywarn Spotter and Skywarn Convective Basics)
I took both classes over the weekend, passed, gained certificates, and then emailed my certificates to NWS/NOAA at the following email addresses as listed on the websites:
dan.reilly@noaa.gov
iln.webmaster@noaa.gov

Of the two, I received an email back today from the iln.webmaster@noaa.gove site stating (after hitting them up twice with two more email requests) to go to the Skywarn NWS site and enter my data using the code they sent.
I could then print out a spotter ID card… I did, and it did not have a Spotter ID number.
Nor did it give local phone and HAM frequencies as were listed as being provided once you receive your number from NWS/NOAA.

I won’t reveal the code now, as you’ll likely have to have the certification to get it, but I was advised that I would not receive a “Spotter ID#” as they do not issue those.
To contact my local NWS/NOAA Skywarn system for this number and certification… The dan.reilly@noaa.gov person I already emails twice with no reply.

ALL of the information I received was from the Wilmington Ohio NWS office.

They apparently care about responding and bringing in valuable Skywarn spotters.

Why in the world can we not get responses or even direct web connects with our local NWS/NOAA resources?

Frustrating, to say the least.

I went to the trouble (actually interesting learning experience) of training, then applying, only to receive a cold shoulder to the application as a spotter.

When I look for training, nothing is listed in the future, only the past and that wasn’t there two months ago,

We need someone to step up and drive Skywarn training on a regular basis, and if we DO DO IT ONLINE, we need a process to get our spotter IDs from South/Southeast Texas, NOT OHIO.

My two cents.

Lloyd Coker KI5OYC

2

Lloyd,
Thanks for your interest in Ham Radio Public Service and your incentive on getting updated training!

Many NWS offices are moving away from issuing spotter numbers - I’ve never had one despite being active in SKYWARN since the mid 70s and living in numerous areas of the country. They have found that the overhead in maintenance of the database isn’t a good use of their forecasters time, as well as they want to encourage reporting regardless of if you have a number or not. Rick sent you the Spotter information sheet from our local Houston/Galveston office (HGX) which will answer your questions regarding reporting procedures. For NW Harris County, the STX ICS-205 for severe weather lists the W5NC repeater on 146.66 as the designated SKYWARN frequency. I am out of range of that system, so maybe someone closer to you can verify if that is correct.

Our local SKYWARN training is usually done very early in the year, and there are no further classes scheduled for this season. The schedule is on the HGX website at https://www.weather.gov/hgx/skywarn_schedule. The courses you’ve done through the NWS training site are good. Another good course is available through the Spotter Network (https://spotternetwork.org/).

As to your email responses, Dan Reilly is the correct contact at HGX. He is the WCM (Warning Coordination Meteorologist) and typically has timely responses to emails. I imagine what has happened is he has been tied up with the recent series of severe storms that have affected our area and has been busy with damage assessments and/or the need for extra staffing for severe events. Be patient and I would predict that he’ll get back with you when things calm down. You received a reply from the Ohio office because that is where you sent your information (ILN is the code for the Wilmington OH office).

Bottom line is you have everything you need to fully participate as a SKYWARN spotter.

I’d be glad to answer any further questions on SKYWARN in the South Texas area.

73,
Keith

3

I recently did a Advanced Radar Training organized by NWS PA.
I asked them if they still issued Spotter Ids and the answer was no.
When we wanted a certificate we had to hit them up by email. They send out an email with empty certificates, guess to fill it in ourselves.

I had the same issue several years ago. No answer whatsoever of the person listed on my local Skywarn page. Luckily there was a guy for the local NWS bureau that had just gotten his license and frequented the Saturday morning coffee in our local mall.
Later he became also our ARES District Coordinator, after that things really took off. He arranged that during events local ham operators were allowed to operate the station of their bureau. Because he admitted that most of the times during an event they don’t have the time to man the station.
Last year they have setup their own winlink station to receive weather reports by winlink that will mark the location of the sender of the report on a big monitor in their office.

Although I moved away from the area I’m still in the mailing list and frequently am updated about things going on.
So I guess it all has to do with the involvement of the NWS bureau of your area.

John - K5GT

4

Gentlemen,

Dan did reach out via email yesterday and will be sending more information when he gets back to a normal pace and is in town.

I appreciate all the feedback from this group, and will work to see what frequencies and systems are still available for HAM and GMRS.

Also, thank several of you for responding with links and data sheets that I can now use to prepare for any spotter activities I may encounter.

Dan advised they do not issue spotter IDs any longer, but to give name and location (which you would give even with an ID :blush:).

Thanks again to all that reached out to help me get on track, and straighten me out LOL :grin::+1::smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

73s and be safe.

Respectfully,

Lloyd Coker

KI5OYC / WRNC997

5

This year I had spotter training in Hutto Tx by NWS, and they didn’t issue certificates or any indication that I received training.

I recently did a Advanced Radar Training organized by NWS PA.
I asked them if they still issued Spotter Ids and the answer was no.
When we wanted a certificate we had to hit them up by email. They send out an email with empty certificates, guess to fill it in ourselves.

I had the same issue several years ago. No answer whatsoever of the person listed on my local Skywarn page. Luckily there was a guy for the local NWS bureau that had just gotten his license and frequented the Saturday morning coffee in our local mall.
Later he became also our ARES District Coordinator, after that things really took off. He arranged that during events local ham operators were allowed to operate the station of their bureau. Because he admitted that most of the times during an event they don’t have the time to man the station.
Last year they have setup their own winlink station to receive weather reports by winlink that will mark the location of the sender of the report on a big monitor in their office.

Although I moved away from the area I’m still in the mailing list and frequently am updated about things going on.
So I guess it all has to do with the involvement of the NWS bureau of your area.

John - K5GT

6

Here is a great site with a lot of free training on things like reading radar and satellite imagery.

https://www.meted.ucar.edu/education_training/

7

Skywarn is pretty much dying due to the Slack app

Monitoring the National skywarn activity back in December on All Star, I heard several folks up in the Midwest talk about how Skywarn had basically died in several places because the national weather service was using the app and didn’t need the hams involved anymore.. Lake Charles Louisiana NWS is pushing the app and doesn’t want any radio operators in their location anymore even though the chief meteorologist there is a ham himself… And for a long time they had a VHF UHF station set up there..

Technology is changing…

Chris WB5ITT
Trustee, W5APX

8

Skywarn is for everyone not just hams. One importance of hams is when regular communications goes down.

Skywarn is pretty much dying due to the Slack app

Monitoring the National skywarn activity back in December on All Star, I heard several folks up in the Midwest talk about how Skywarn had basically died in several places because the national weather service was using the app and didn’t need the hams involved anymore.. Lake Charles Louisiana NWS is pushing the app and doesn’t want any radio operators in their location anymore even though the chief meteorologist there is a ham himself… And for a long time they had a VHF UHF station set up there..

Technology is changing…

Chris WB5ITT
Trustee, W5APX

9

I would very much disagree with this assessment. The move of NWSChat from an internal platform to Slack didn’t change the way the NWS offices communicate. The move was to increase the reliability of the NWSChat platform, and added some capabilities like sharing pictures. The general public can’t access NWSChat either with the old system or the new. There is still a vital need for SKYWARN spotters gathering real-time observations. I would agree that SKYWARN is definitely less HAM-centric than it used to be, but that is largely because there are more resources made available by the proliferation of personal communication devices. The NWS offices have the potential to tap into HAM, CB, GMRS, social media, mPING, Spotter Network, and telephone sources.

Where NWSChat may be affecting the HAM interaction with the NWS office is that SKYWARN NCS stations are being given NWSChat access (again, not a recent change). I can see that some offices my think that the HAMs don’t need to be present in the NWS facility for that reason. Not sure about the politics in the Lake Charles office, but the relationship with our Houston/Galveston office is still strong, and there is still a station in the office. COVID and security concerns have made accessing any government facility more difficult.

10

*My guess is that NWS offices are very busy places during severe weather
situations and so long as the information they receive complies with their
training, they really don't care about the credentials of the reporter.
Therefore, they have no need to maintain ID databases and to cross
reference every report.*

*As trained weather spotters and ham radio operators, our only need is to
have the proper frequencies available to report observed weather
emergencies using our equipment be it voice or digital. *

*If there are going to be assigned positions for spotters, it should be our
responsibility to organize our own members.*

*It makes no sense to me why the NWS, who so wishes there to be lots of
trained Skywarn spotters, cannot send out signed, elecctronic certificates
of completion...it should be automatic - again just a bit of software but
it's not our call.*

*There should be an organized effort, similar to that of the hospital net
members, to maintain a roster of hams who will rotate through the NWS radio
room. Someone in the SW unit (the EC?) should be responsible for that.
During weather emergencies, the NWS radio room should have the same
priority as an EOC.*

*My observation is that, as a 'professional' organization that requires
periodic SkyWarn training to maintain our capabilities (and other required
periodic updates), we do a poor job of ensuring that is accomplished. IOW,
nobody monitors taskbooks and sends out timely reminders or updates
taskbooks. Again, it wouldn't be very hard to modify software to
accomplish both tasks automatically when a deadline expires.*

*73,*
*Paul*

*k5prs*

11

Why in the world can we not get responses or even direct web connects with our local NWS/NOAA resources?

The world according to Mike

Skywarn varies based upon your region in the country. The greater Houston area does not see a significant amount of severe tornadic weather and thus the NWS is not near as active here as it is say in Indiana where I once lived for 5 years. Nor is it near as active as OK, KS MO and other upper midwestern states. Our local NWS office does a lot of familiarization training throughout Feb-Mar. They also do a fair amount of training with public service agencies during that period of time.

So don’t dispari … the response is proportional to the need. There is just not a lot of need for Skywarn activity in the Houston area.

12

k5prs

13

I agree along the lines of what you have presented here Keith, and support you in this. Nicely stated.

I have been watching this thread on SKYWARN and ARES today as well. So, sharing a bit about our local SKYWARN processes.

For reference, I have been Emergency Coordinator of Williamson County since 2016, was the Net Manager for a couple years before that. I am ARES District 7 Emergency Coordinator for counties around Austin for a couple of years. This means I have a vested interest in what makes ARES an increasingly viable organization to our served agencies, our members, and the general public. Yes, times have changed. If we don’t change with the times, we can become irrelevant. That is true in any industry, VOAD, etc.

So SKYWARN operations, in my experience, makes our organizations relevant to the Emergency Management, LEO, and other served agencies. It gives us the venue to provide instant, trained, viable, and accurate, on the ground first person SITREP information to served agencies including NWS. Why do I say that? Because in Williamson County alone, we some years run DOZENS of SKYWARN nets. At times, multiples in the same day. From Spring to Fall, and yes even over the winter with winter ice storms that hit us so hard here in Central Texas. So we run formal SKYWARN nets all year if needed. And no, you don’t need a SKYWARN Spotter ID number. That is not the point, you need the training to give relevant information in the format the agencies need.

When I became EC here in Williamson County, I changed our Weather Nets to SKYWARN nets, as we have requirements for ARES members to be SKYWARN trained and relevant. For a couple of reasons. One is to raise the level of importance of this Net over others we run. Two is to set the expectations of the level of activation and information we report. Concise, relevant data, as directed by the NCS. We only activate SKYWARN nets when NWS issues a severe warning, and or a served agency, like OEM requests us to do so. Now, this is not only a recognized service across the county agencies, it is an expected operation. And to the State RACES CLO as well.

We utilize NWS on SLACK, which is a great improvement over NWS Chat we used over several years. However, I only authorize a handful of key members to have access to the NWS Slack, such as experienced NCS and Operational Management. I want to make sure we have quality information presented to NWS. Also, other served agencies such as OEM watch for our reports on NWS. Just because a ham is SKYWARN spotter trained, you don’t need access to NWS Chat. Your ARES organization needs it. Too many cooks in the kitchen at same time spoils the soup, so to speak.

This has been replicated in Lee County specifically, and other ARES counties in District 7 as well, to a high degree of effectiveness.

What this has done for us is being a gateway into numerous served agencies, as we now have a reputation for providing real time, accurate information that is relevant to them when timeframe is critical. They have learned that many times we see it first, and report it to NWS & OEM, then NWS reports it into the system. For this reason, County 911 dispatch has our SKYWARN Nets running on the CAD consoles for years. Also the reason we train our members and NCS to run nets more closely aligned with dispatch. Relevant info only on reports. We get the report, in SKYWARN or OEM terminology, nearest major intersection, and call sign. Nothing more is usually needed. For example, last night’s SKYWARN net here had report of over 1” hail. Severe level hail. It was posted on NWS chat on Slack. Within minutes the report shows upon GRL3 radar, as Amateur Radio reported. This is a regular occurrence. We have a good relationship with NWS in our area, because we vet our data and have proven ourselves over time as a reliable source. That has to be maintained.

We also began issuing our Google Sheets ICS 309 SKYWARN logs to these agencies years back that are collaborative and in real time. We regularly have OEM’s in the County and multiple cities, LEO, and ERCOT representatives either listening to, or participating in our SKYWARN nets. We get information from them shared with us to pass along to our listeners on the nets as well. Several have become licensed Amateur Radio operators and have joined ARES.

Where this really pays off is when we are tracking a really severe hail core, or a tracking a tornado real time on the ground. And no, we don’t chase tornados. Members give first hand reports from where they currently are located. We get a lot of attention during these storms, as we are recognized as a valued resource, and an integral part of the county department operations.

To us here, SKYWARN is our chance to give ARES important relevance to all agencies, if we have SKYWARN trained members and give pertinent information. This opens the doors to so many other venues and operations for ARES to support our served agencies, our members, and the public in general. We have quite the following on scanners, our Broadcastify repeater link, and now have a WCARES channel bank that can be loaded onto many of the county and city Motorola radios for them to listen to our nets.

To me, as an EC and DEC, SKYWARN is not dying. It is supercharging our ARES value to our community. It is all in how you manage your resources. This is our bread and butter so to speak.

It is like life. You get out of it, what you put into it.

73’s

Terry Jones, K5LGV

District 7 Emergency Coordinator

Williamson County ARES

RACES CRO, #12-491

Williamson County, Texas

512-426-2351

wc-ares.org

EM10co

14

I know this topic has been discussed recently, but in the past SkyWarn nets were conducted on the Saltgrass Link System. Everyone knew to go to whichever repeater they could receive/transmit to the best and give reports if necessary. When the SGLS collapsed, there really was no go to repeater or system for SkyWarn to take place. When the 444.500 repeater was put on the air it was loosely designated as a SKyWarn repeater, but it wasn’t really used for SkyWarn. I really don’t know if the South Coast Reflector was in place at that time or if it came later, but the 444.500 is now a part of the South Coast Reflector. This morning KB5PGY started a SkyWarn net on the SCR and was able to get into the La Porte repeater. During the net he mentioned that he could not get into the 444.500 repeater from the NWS station. That may be one reason why no SkyWarn net was initiated on the 444.500 in the past when the repeaters were not linked. I don’t know this for sure though.

It is encouraged that hams get SkyWarn trained, but it is not necessary to have SkyWarn training or certificates to send severe weather reports to the NWS or to a NCS of a SKyWarn net. We typically conduct SkyWarn nets out here in Fort Bend County on the 145.49 repeater, and then relay severe reports to NWS either directly from the NCS or via a liaison station designated to relay those reports. We had a net this morning as well, but luckily there were no severe reports to submit. Also it is strongly requested that only severe reports meeting the criteria listed by the NCS be passed. i.e. no fair weather reports including light wind, clouds, sprinkles, etc.

73
John Denison
KD5YOU

15

Great discussion and points raised. Consider it from a business perspective: what value can you provide? How can you make it easy?

It may only be a quick email or software upgrade, but is the juice worth the squeeze? Consider who you want to support and what they need - are you aligned? Show what you can provide versus what they could do - if there is value im sure they will coordinate. If they don’t see it -why? Have things changed and they need something different?

I expect some less than complementary feedback on this - and I am good with that.
If you want to discuss, more than open.

Frank

16

LOL LOL LOL :grin:

I started this thread to try and get a Skywarn certification and ID number and found out IDs are no longer issued.

I did get certified, and feel I “poked the bear” a bit with my post. LOL

Many great folks have responded and a true in-depth conversation has ensued.

My key takeaway:

  • Spotters are still needed, appreciated, and accepted, but there is confusion about certifications and IDs… No longer, No IDs needed, and certification is a formality that only requires online and added training where possible. (As stated in a previous post, we need pertinent information that is accurate and precise as possible… no matter the media form).
  • Secondly, I was not trying to generate any dismay or aggravation for the Skywarn system, but rather I was aggravated by the lack of available up to date data for participation.
  • Now that, that, has been covered to an extent, I simply want to know the best way to report (in a timely manner, during a crisis or certainly before) any pertinent sightings I have observed.
  • As a HAM, what frequency repeater in my area? (HAM or GMRS)
  • Via phone, what app, or what number to call?
  • If later, after the event, for evaluation purposes of the storm, who wants to know and how do we contact them.

I am a HUGE fan of anything that helps us avoid or recover from major storms or events.

I apologize especially to Dan Reilly (NWS/NOAA) as I really turned up the heat on his watch, and he was obviously quite busy with REAL evaluations and NWS/NOAA business.

To be honest, some of us HAMs drive points a bit to hard and far when wanting access or certifications for various organizations and service groups. (Humbly Apologize to Dan)

I fell prey to that format and I do apologize… Many of us during the actual storm crisis lost power, and witnessed extreme weather, and without the training, were unable to help report it.

Our fault… not the NWS/NOAA folks.

Please understand, this post was to initiate training and information sharing and access to communication avenues for our communities.

For me personally, my cell phone didn’t work for two days, my internet was out for 5 days… prompting me to turn to HAM Radio… That is the primary reason we have HAM correct?

Good topics for ARES and RACES as well as just local HAMs and GMRS groups to toss around and maybe hone those skills and update the data provided to our communities of HAM and GMRS.

I specifically included GMRS as I found that the GMRS venue or medium was utilized even more than HAM during the events and shortly after… Just saying … Sorry Hammers (like me) LOL LOL

You all have great expectations and intentions.

Please continue the dialogue, and let’s work to find a frequency and system that we can all turn to in an emergency. :+1::smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

Respectfully,

Lloyd Coker

KI5OYC

WRNC997

Cypress, Texas

17

I have emailed data (reports/pictures/details) to NWS EWX days or a week after a storm came through because it wasnt known at the moment of the storm, and they appear to appreciate it,

1 example: 3 or 4 days after a seemingly innocuous storm blew through, I visited an associate and they were cleaning up large limbs, fixing roofs, etc.
I took pictures, documented times and places from their recollections, and emailed it.

I got a reply a couple days later that they had went back and reviewed the radar data for that area/cell, and realized the intensity of that small cell had been missed/overlooked.
Without me sending that in, they would have not noticed/known, so any data like that Im sure is of some value to them, even after the fact.

73
Jim
K5KTF

18

To add to Jim’s comments: I don’t have the 800 number for Houston NWS but I have Memphis TN and EWX/Austin/San Antonio. So I too contacted EWX last week by phone to report some golfball size hail and the guy who answered the phone was very confused as to why I was calling him (“this is new Braunfels, aren’t you in Houston??”). I clearly explained that I was a trained Skywarn spotter and I didn’t have the direct Houston 800 number and I had lost my access to NWSChat when they moved to the new server, but I had his number and had the report. He took my report with what sounded like some reluctancy but hopefully it got into the network.

Ive also made reports on twitter in the past from my phone and tagged “@ NWS [city]” because from back when I was a Skywarn district coordinator and had access to the chat, I knew they (the NWS Mets in general) were watching the twitter feeds.

$0.02

73/Chris/AC5CM

19

This is a good thread. I was wondering where Skywarn went to the other week.

I was thinking the Cross Roads system might be an option the linked repeaters run mainly from Houston area all the way down to Corpus. The Katy CR repeater is 444.550 + 103.5 , the website for more repeaters and info is https://crhrc.org/

James KD5JBT

20

Lloyd:
Most of your specific questions are answered in the Spotter Guide that was attached to an earlier email on this thread from Rick WA2HRF. I won’t re-attach it here to save bandwidth.

As a HAM, what frequency repeater in my area? (HAM or GMRS)
From the info I have, it looks like the W5NC repeater on 146.66 covers your area, but check with local HAMs to see if that’s current and correct.
The South Coast Reflector system http://southcoastreflector.com/repeaters-on-scr- is the wide-area linked system to funnel reports to the NWS (this info has not been updated in the Spotter Guide).
I don’t know of any active spotter groups using GMRS – I’d be glad to hear about it if there are.

Via phone, what app, or what number to call?
See the Spotter Guide

If later, after the event, for evaluation purposes of the storm, who wants to know and how do we contact them.
Email or social media accounts for the NWS office are good places to put late reports or pictures. The account IDs on the various platforms are in the Spotter Guide.

73,
Keith